Folks, it is officially acceptable for this to be in MeTa; it's in line with things that have historically been posted here, and there's no reason it would need to be moved.

Small fix in the second-to-last paragraph: "The new donation page was all set to be pushed live."

Folks, the Board has requested that the discussion about Google be tabled (in the American sense) in this thread. If you feel strongly that the Board should be using an alternative provider, please feel free to make another MeTa.

Hi there, folks. It should go without saying (but i am saying it anyway) that this comment is completely fucking unacceptable. Using transphobia to make a rhetorical point is still transphobic and it is not allowed on MetaFilter.

This is absolutely the kind of thing that warrants a deletion even in lightly-moderated MeTa, but since that didn't happen immediately, i am leaving the comment up because it has gotten significant pushback in-thread and i think at this point it should stand as a record. (I did discuss this with brook horse privately, as the person most directly affected, and they concurred. Obviously, however, this also affects all trans MeFites and i am open to changing that decision.)

Both this account and PNTM's main account were closed by the user, so a timeout or ban is redundant at this point. I have, however, made a notation on both accounts about this incident, such that if they ever wanted to unbutton there would have to be, at minimum, a conversation between mods about whether it should be allowed, and on the user's side a substantial amount of remorse and assurances that this will never happen again.

As previously requested in the above mod note, please do not diagnose people with medical issues over the internet.

Diskeater (and everyone else): as noted above, some folks are really bothered by the jerkoff emojis. Please stop.

HearHere's most recent comment is on topic for this thread, because fundamentally this thread is about their behavior and they deserve the right of reply. However, please be assured that mods are carefully watching their behavior on the rest of the site; feel free to flag as appropriate.

One deleted. HearHere, you're getting a timeout now.

Pickman's Next Top Model: it turns out some folks are really bothered by the jerkoff emojis, and i think you've long since made your point with them. You are absolutely not required to stop criticizing anyone, but please stop doing that thing specifically?

One deleted. Poster’s request.

Edited this comment to fix a typo, at the user's request.

anoldfriend6: I understand what you're getting at here, but please be mindful that the way you are phrasing things does come across as pretty dismissive of folks who may have significant difficulty functioning but do not have a formal diagnosis. And note that the official diagnostic criteria for ADHD, in particular, make it extremely difficult for anyone who was unable to access a diagnosis by age 18 to ever get a diagnosis, even if they otherwise have all the symptoms; it is widely acknowledged by disability and mental health activists as a real access problem.

Melismata: "Perhaps he’s a troll, but is he also ND? Can we smart mefites figure out a way to explain things to him in ways that he understands?"

Melismata (and also anoldfriend6): i understand you're trying to be kind here—the impulse is a very generous one! But we definitely don't need to be diagnosing other users on here or speculating about their neurology.

HearHere, this is really not acceptable behavior, and it needs to stop. I am not going to make you take a break from this thread, because i regard it as odious to put you in the position of having everyone else discussing your behavior without permitting you to reply, but there is a limit to how much we are willing to continue discussing this issue with you and it is approaching quickly.

At your request, i have corrected the typo in your earlier comment, but that in no way constitutes approval of this behavior.

One comment deleted at user's request!

(Just updated a previous comment of mine to remove the mod-action styling, as it was also a "mod-hat but not mod action" comment. Sorry for the inconvenience!)

snofoam: "Is this possible on the tech side? I don’t remember ever seeing someone given a timeout from a specific subsite."

It's not something we can automate, but it is certainly something we can tell folks is a requirement for their continued participation! It used to be something that the mods did a lot back in the cortex/LM/EM days, although i don't think it's been done in awhile. It's just done on the honor system. (But of course if they violate that, that's obvious bad behavior.)

(edited my own earlier comment to add the mod-note styling; sorry about that oversight)

Folks, while i can't speak for the other mods, i am absolutely reading this thread. Please note that for obvious reasons, we're not going to discuss what kind of private mod communications or actions we have taken or might take with respect to any specific user. I also want to be clear that, consistent with the entire history of the site, people do not generally get permabanned without an escalating process of warnings and timeouts unless they have said something egregiously bigoted or otherwise unacceptable. This is not a thing that is specific to any particular user, it is how things have always worked.

I understand that those two things, taken together, mean that it can look like we're not doing anything about a user who is bothering people. And i get that people are frustrated about that! It's part of the way the job works. I'm absolutely not trying to short-circuit any complaining in here; i just wanted to make sure folks know that we're not ignoring you.

lapis: "I'm really not trying to be persnickety here, but when did comments start getting deleted from MeTa for being noise? I thought we were moving toward lighter moderation and fewer deletions? Is it because it's a Board update thread?"

MeTa is moderated very lightly, but that doesn't mean stuff is never going to be deleted. In this case, i made the judgment that the comment was likely to cause another giant derail, in a thread which is already like four derails deep.

One comment deleted as noise.

Folks. In this particular case, loup made the decision not to leave speculative misinformation about moderation in the thread, even with my mod note to counter it. Is it the decision i would have made? Probably not; as you might have noticed, i tend to reach for other tools much more than the delete button. But i had considered deleting the comment myself (instead of only leaving a mod note)--and although i decided against it, loup's decision here was in fact perfectly reasonable. Especially since the user i was responding to realized it was a bad call in the interim, and asked for their comment to be deleted.

I get that there's a lot of frustration about moderation! We're working on it! But in this particular case, the original call could've gone either way, and so could the subsequent call; there's not some kind of coverup going on.

One comment and the mod note addressing it have been removed as requested.

It is definitely a mistake to treat one data point as a trend, HearHere.

One comment deleted at the user's request

Oh, btw, cyanistes, i don't think you did anything wrong here. I think "feature requests related to books on FanFare" (and even games, by extension as "media that gets less love in the FanFare interface") are entirely on-topic here. Please carry on as you were.

Seriously, everyone, that is enough. Two deleted. Pickman's Next Top Model, please stop picking fights with other users, especially contemporaneously with picking the same fights in another open MeTa thread. (The second was deleted for responding to the first deleted comment.)

I hate having to delete shit in MeTa, but "lightly moderated" is not the same as "unmoderated". I cannot speak for the other mods, but i personally am happy to hear you out at length about the shortcomings of any user you have a problem with, via MeMail or the Contact Form.

clav and HH, you're getting pretty far afield here with the derail into the Temple of Elemental Evil and its immediate neighborhood. Please take it to MeMail or make a post on FanFare.

Noting that snofoam was banned for 24 hours due to making a seemingly offensive comment. I was unaware of the context behind the comment and do acknowledge it was a mistake. The ban was unnecessary, and the additional context was helpful in understanding the comment. It still would have been deleted, but the ban was a bit excessive.

Folks, i would take it as a personal favor if this thread included less sniping at each other.

Hey, just a quick note: the conversation has mostly moved on, but this MeTa thread is not a great venue to complain about the person who posted it. Again, MeTa is deliberately moderated very lightly, and i'm not going to delete anything, but please try to keep it focused on the topic rather than the messenger.

One more reply deleted as it was missed the first time.

One comment & reply deleted. Keep comments appropriate please.

Going To Maine: "I mean, I care inherently because presumably any comments I made in those threads have also been lost."

Just FYI, that's not how account deletion works anymore. All FPPs on the Blue, the Gray, and FanFare are anonymized and the text redacted, but the post remains open and all comments are visible.

Two deleted. Seriously, folks, please stop calling each other names.

plagued out moggies: "Learn to read, you fucking ignoramus"

Please do not speak to other members like this, either.

Seriously, folks, tempers are running high in here and it'd probably be good to cool things down a little.

(Also "moron" is a slur, and while it's historically not been one we've moderated out on MetaFilter, i don't love to see it.)

dobbs: "Wow. What an ignorant, entitled, embarrassment of a post. Could your wording be any more insulting? You haven't even been a member for a year."

MeTa is deliberately moderated with a very light hand, so i'm leaving this to stand, but please do not speak to other members like this. Even if it were not the case that moggies is a longstanding user on a new-ish account, MetaFilter doesn't offer bonus points for time in grade.

At the poster's request, i have made a small edit to make the post less US-centric.

Just a note to reiterate what I said in the other related MeTa thread: please do not imply that other members are mentally unwell. Saying "you need therapy" is not generally gonna be received well, and it very quickly crosses over into ableism/sanism.

Hey, a quick note: it's really not appropriate to imply that other members are mentally unstable or tell them to "get help". If you're genuinely concerned about someone's welfare, that's certainly something you can convey in a compassionate way, but please do it without crossing the line into ableism/sanism.

A personal note: I am still in training and this is my first semi-independent mod note; i do welcome feedback but also please bear with me while i get the hang of things!

I'm going to close this thread. Threads that ask “why haven’t mods addressed this?” or invite general discussion of site issues are fine, but framing a post around one specific user and labeling them a “missing stair” while making assumptions about their state of mind is ableist and inapropriate. If you want to talk about trends or problems you see on the site, please start a new MetaTalk post that focuses on the behaviors and patterns you’re concerned about rather than creating a pile‑on around a single member.

HearHere, please step away from this thread. You are not participating in good faith and are causing derails in a thread meant for the BIPOC board and users to discuss important topics.

Well spotted glonous keming, fixed.

Removed a duplicate comment.

Deleted one, wrong thread.

No worries Kitteh, edited.

Title and part of the post removed as per OP's request above.

Just a quick note to acknowledge that chmmr has apologized for making this post and there have been some flags and comments asking for this thread to be closed. After talking it over with the board, we’ve decided to keep the thread open. MetaTalk is here for the community to have the conversations it wants to have, and we feel that closing the thread would cut off a conversation that people clearly do want to have. Let’s try to keep this conversation productive and empathetic.

One deleted. Poster's request.

One deleted. Poster's request.

Updated the FAQ entry to make it clearer on how to hide and show US politics posts.

Mod here, have brought this up on the Slack, we’re discussing now to make sure we’re all on the same page/understanding of what the US politics sidebar is for. Will report back later this evening.

Yes, tags do have RSS feeds, here’s the one for Siteupdate. Click on the tag of any post and you can access the RSS feed.

bitteschoen: "Just kidding, sorry, I just wanted to try out the MefiQuote thing because this is the very first time I hear about this. Très cool. And really should be the default maybe?"

Added a FAQ entry about MeFi Quote with the help of Darling Bri and frimble. It has a couple of videos showing usage and how to turn off and on.

That entry may be updated once it's decided whether it's on by default, but for now there is reference entry to link to!

Changed media images in both episodes of Starfleet Academy.

3 comments removed from thread at the writer's request.

did anyone reach out to the poster to ask them if they had used generative AI to create the question and ask them to repost, as a courtesy?

Yup, I sent them an email explaining the decision more in detail and pointing out to the relevant guidelines.

This thread has derailed and no longer productive. After many flags requesting a closure, it is now closed.

Just remember if the thread closes and y'all want to continue, contact the mods who can reopen it so it stays open.

This can only happen in MetaTalk, fyi

lapis: "The moderators delete comments all the time without notice and seemingly without recourse."

This should not be happening and if anyone does see it happening, I am asking that you use the contact form to send an email that goes to every mod about and/or report it to the Moderation Oversight Committee. Again, this should absolutely not be happening and moderators should be called out if it does happen.

trig: "Given that a huge discussion about this happened 2 months ago, which like every discussion about this complicated issue that has no drawback-less solution was really contentious, and that there doesn't seem to be an appetite to do it all over again quite so soon, and that the poster of this thread said they were okay with deleting it, and that this is a week when mods and the (brand new) board might have less time than usual to read and weigh in and, in the board's case, assess policy - maybe this one could be closed up."

Agreed, closing this thread up.

Ok, i got an example of this happening with this comment of mine, as the first comment and only comment in the thread, https://www.metafilter.com/211567/LEON, on mobile, using the Classic theme. On desktop, the problem does not appear when using the Classic theme.

Anyone seeing the small type in the first comment when it's the only comment?

Members can ask for their account to be deleted. Currently when that happens, the mods ask if the member would be ok with making their posts and comments anonymous to preserve the history of that information while removing the attachment to their account.

If the member says no, that's fine, then we remove all of their posts and comments.

If the member says yes, then we make the author of their posts and comments anonymous.

That rationale is that people should have control over their content and be allowed to redact or remove it for any reason.

Hope this helps clears this up!

Yep, closed

Thread permanently reopened by request, which is something mods can only do in MetaTalk.

Added to site banner

Deleted one at the user's request.

Fixed link, thanks for pointing out GeckoDundee!

Here’s the correct link to the contest!

Two comments deleted at poster request.

Added to site banner.

HearHere: "flagging: mods, can you fix above as requested?"

Can you please message or explain exactly what you want done? Thanks!

Thanks for the post, frimble has been alerted!

One comment removed. Let's avoid sexist comments, saying "she was basically asking for it" is definitely against our Content Policy

One comment removed for pulling information from a member's profile and posting it in a thread, which is not ok per this FAQ entry, please don't do that. This may not have been meant maliciously, or the info was viewed as being on topic, but either way, avoid pulling information from a user's profile.

If anyone wants to do this, they'll need to explicitly asked for permission to do so and the member has to give explicit permission for you to share the information in a thread.

The comment has been removed and the text of it has been emailed to the writer of it, in case they'd like to rewrite it.

What does 'promoting piracy' mean in that context?
Can you explain to me how saying "I went back to pirating" is "allow[ing] it on the site"?

Posting a comment that says "Honestly I just canceled everything and started pirating again", having that deleted and asked to not promote piracy, then posting a second comment that says "You should just pirate" is the line we're drawing here. Don't explicitly suggest/tell/advise others to pirate stuff and don't announce that you're pirating.

'Cause while the chances of the site being investigated for promoting piracy are small, we think it's a good idea to make those chances even smaller by having members avoid advocating piracy.

Post edited, link added!

extramachine: "I lurk there sometimes, but seeing the comments on other Ask-ers has dissuaded me a few times from putting personal questions on AskMe. "

Hey, you can ask a question anonymously or create another account to ask questions. The latter might be a better choice, as it allows you respond or clarify anything if need be.

Added to site banner.

Changed date in post to 18th, updated staff box.

Board tags should be showing up correctly now, and the error loading new comments should also be fixed.

One comment removed and account deleted due to the account being an obvious troll one that targeted a specific member and dragged off site happenings onto MetaFilter.

It should be noted that the troll account was directed at me as a mod and that I'm currently the mod on duty. After consulting with the new board they were in agreement that the comment and account should be removed because there was no need for it be left around for a different mod to deal with.

Two comments by Didymus have been removed, the reasons are summed by donnagirl in this comment.

Didymus has been put on an open-ended ban while mods discuss whether the ban should be permanent. This information has been emailed to Didymus along with a note that we'll have a final decision within 72 hours (Wednesday evening, eastern time).

Mitheral: "It is unclear whether it is anonymous to MeFi admin accounts."

The admins can see who gives guest accounts, yes.

away for regrooving: "Wait, any non-logged-in person can send themself a gift account? Seems potentially exploitable! "

Nah, if the email already exists, no account is made and if a different address is used, someone still has to pay the $5 for the account, so there's no secret about who it is.

1. Is Metafilter policy, "do not say 'Fuck x' where x is anyone."

Yes, in most cases. Allow me to explain, historically there has been no prohibition on non-hateful cursing into the void on the site, but cursing at another person (be it a member, staff, or other people). However, we always try to lean towards leniency, there are exceptions when it comes to public persons, and the subject at hand. Saying fuck [x] in an obituary post about said person is not the same as in a post about their work, or some terrible thing they have done, and even then there are, and will be exceptions.

Admittedly, that mod note, could have used more context. On top of the name calling it was early threadshitting and also a potential derail. Now, if there's a desire to set policies that are clearer and less obscure in their application, that is something I think we all support and can work towards with the new board once seated.

With a new board being seated in about 20 days (eta of November 18th), this is certainly something that could be brought up again sometime soon.

Just coming to clarify because this comment is getting flagged: Actually, saying "fuck someone" does fall under the "Be considerate and respectful" section of the guidelines and the "Name calling" section of the content policy.
However, this is also why we maintain lighter moderation on MetaTalk; it's the place where you can voice concerns, frustrations, and disagreements freely. So while this does technically go against our guidelines, we're probably not going to delete it.
That said, we do hope members can keep in mind that the people being called out here are fellow community members volunteering their time to help.

Do we, as a community, think that cursing public figures for their public actions should be forbidden? And do we know where the line is dividing people like NPH from people like JKR?

Speaking as a mod, these two questions are the most important ones to decide upon, IMO.

Because ause "fuck bernie sanders" and "fuck trump" and "fuck gen z" will probably have different reactions on MetaFilter.

tivalasvegas: "Yeah, AFAIK you can simply contact the mods to request that they post your contribution anonymously to the relevant post."

Yes, this is currently the only way to post anonymously on any MetaFilter site.

Bottlecap: "I already did. And it is my understanding that you can read all memail anyway."

Mods can not read memail. We have to get frimble to check it out. I

f something is going on in MeFiMail please let us know by sending examples of it to us via the contact form or have the person receiving them send us examples.

Anytime that happens, for any member, send us the MeFiMail.

Bottlecap: "Hey everyone, and mods especially, “the moon and I” is sending weird doxxy memails about zarq. I think this behavior merits a time out at the very least."

Please use the contact form to send the mods examples of this behavior, and we’ll take it from there.

No comments removed as MetaTalk has slightly lighter moderation, but please let's avoid calling other members names (dick, in this instance).

brook horse: "I don’t know how mods feel about their job...

It's neat and interesting, but It can be difficult at times, of course, but any job can be. From waiting tables to graphic design freelancing to delivering mail to MeFi mod, people can be brutal with their comments, or as I like to say "The people are definitely peopling today". In these instances it's best to focus on what the actual problem or request and deal with that, as opposed to negative attitudes. It's the other person's choice to be how they are and isn't a reflection on me..

But for MeFi, I do think having mods spend a lot or even most of their time in MeTaTalk isn't great and ideally they'd be spending more time on other parts of the site, encouraging more conversations in the various posts. I described the job as a "facilitator of fun" during one conversation with the interim board and I like that idea.

Have been going back and forth with Rhaomi in email this morning and here's a summary of what's going on:

The large quantity of FPP posts that zarq created would have meant removing a lot of contributions from other people who have participated in the threads. Manually removing the personal information would have required a lot of manual work.

So a new script was developed by Rhaoni (over several months) to go through a user's posts and remove the content of the person requesting an account wipe, while preserving the comments and links that were made in those posts.

Here's how that process works, explained to me this morning by Rhaomi:

The only things remaining from the original FPP are 1. the title (which is part of the URL), 2. the tags (which are a shared site resource), and 3. the raw URLs from the post. Everything else written by the user requesting the wipe is erased, including any original writing that could possibly identify them. The original post text, no matter how long or how simple, is replaced by a brief independently-written one-line description of the topic for context.

This process was developed by Rhaomi over the past few months to comply with any account wiper's request, while still keeping the links and comments of those who had commented on the post.

This new script was run last night on zarq's FPP posts on Metafilter.

That's what I know and understand as of this point.

Whoot, brand new day and times for the site! Congrats to everyone on the new board!

To be clear, I'm not against getting rid of the queue.

No specific data on hand about deleting posts from un-queued sites.

Projects is different though because it's specifically for "for members to toot their own horn and link to something that they have done". Do we care if someone signs up just to post their project on Projects? If someone signs up and puts up a link to a 'One Day Bathroom Remodel' site and says they were the designer for the site, do we let it stand? Matt (the original creator of MetaFilter) thought commercial projects were fine, but things have changed in those 20 years.

Not a big concern, IMO, at the moment. If it starts turning into that, we can rethink things. Probably worth thinking about what constitutes a Project, because shockingly there isn't a firm definition in the FAQ.